Roma (and the Ref) in the Europa
By: timmyg | November 5th, 2009Stadio Olimpico translated into Spanish must mean Estadio Azteca because my lord that was the most comically biased game I’ve ever seen refereed.
Funny, I was about to cite the Roma blog here (Daryl, is it kosher to start a cross-Offside blog feud??) but Dan beat me to the punch in the comments. And he’s spot on too.
This match and the previous match against Roma were, unfortunately, about the referees. This is not sour grapes, it is fact.
Today, two players mind-bogglingly received straight reds and will now miss the rest of the group stages. Nevland nicked (studs weren’t even showing!!) De Rossi’s ankles and Koncheskly laid out for a ball that was being taunted in front of him. Both incidents led to the Roma players looking like they just got hit by a car. Two others were yellow carded for light infractions (I think — what was Baird booked for again??) and one will miss the next match because of card accumulation. Oh, and the fouls were 21 to 7 against us.
Two weeks ago, Stephen Kelly brought down a Roma player in the box. Sure penalty, but not a red card. How do I know that? BECAUSE JAMES MILNER DID THE SAME THING TO KAMARA IN MAY AND WASN’T EVEN BOOKED. And the fouls were 15 to 10 against us.
So my worst case scenario didn’t just come to fruition it basically broke into my house, shot my dog, and slept with my girlfriend. An already battered squad will already be without four players next match, three for the remaining group stages.
But at least none of our fans were stabbed.
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Went onto the Roma Offside just now to see whether they might be a little generous after mugging Fulham of five points with some significant help. Not a bit of it.
“The English will have you believe this was about the referee. But with the benefit of video replay we have seen…
i. The intentional handball in the first half on the ball to goal was a red card and penalty.
ii. The red card in the second half was not.So they cancel each other out and a penalty is left on the table. Pretty decent swap if you ask me.”
Had to laugh. So proud of my classy Fulham tonight.
Posted from
United Kingdom
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Half our 1st team was missing, Motta RB, juan and burdisso CB’S, Brighi-Menez-Vuci and TOTTI were missing if they where all there this would have been a thrashing but good play by fulham u gained my respect hodgeson(sp) is a good manager but no totti no party GRAZIE ROMA
Posted from
United Kingdom -
A thrashing? I don’t think so.
Fulham had injuries as well, you know? No Murphy, Duff or Andy Johnson and Davies barely fit enough for the bench.
I’d be embarassed if I supported an Italian side. I thought the Premier League was bad for diving and shirtpulling. It’s still an oasis of fair play compared to the UEFA competitions. Good luck to you.
Posted from
United Kingdom -
go home chavs haha
Posted from
United States -
Nevland’s red card was spot on. The ball was far away and when he realized that, he tackled even harder –> red card. Should be banned for 5 games.
The referee missed a handball on a goal-bound shot in the first half –> penalty and red card.
Remember that players are allowed to do much more in England than in european competetions.
The second red card was bullshit though, and generally the ref’s calls were in our (Roma) favour.
Posted from
Denmark -
Are you kidding me Caroe, 5 games? He barely touched De Rossi, who is a known diver.
And I’m not being a homer but that handball “noncall” is nonsense. If I drilled a shot directly at you 75 miles an hour and it happened to hit you in the hand would it be a penalty? No. This went beyond “players allowed to do more in England.” This was certifiable nonsense.
Posted from
United States -
ewe don’t stab fans if you were nice to us, fulham never caused problems the fans were friendly to each other
Posted from
Greece -
and for who says ddr is a known diver, get me one player in england that has strength that ddr has or the loyalty or respect, the day de rossi dives its the day a man lives till 100000 years
Posted from
Greece -
Five games? Caroe should be a comedian because that was funny.
My dislike of de Rossi goes beyond him being a diver. He intentionally elbowed someone in the face in the World Cup – and smirked as he went off.
In the Roma live blog, it says that “Taddei sells it [the red card] like Rodrigo Taddei”. Our fans don’t condone diving.
Two wins will get us through. It’s up to us to pack the Cottage for CSKA Sofia and continue picking up points in the league. Proud of the Fulham boys and girls this morning.
Posted from
United Kingdom -
@Dan:
1. First of all, saying De Rossi is a known diver is so ridiculous it reveals you have absolutely no clue about what you’re talking about. Secondly, look up the elbow incident on youtube, he was devastated as he walked off. Besides McBride himself said De Rossi apologised to him afterwards.
2. The whole “Taddei sells it like Taddei” is, at least partially, ironical. And if you cared to red the whole blog post you would have been able to see a reasoning for the red cards.
3. I have nothing against Fulham, not at all. In fact, after Montella played for you I actually came to like the club, but I’ve had a bellyful of English sides searching for scapegoats and excuses every time they lose. “Oh, the ref robbed us again”, “Oh, the Italians are diving again”. You lost because Roma was and is and will always be the BETTER TEAM.
So get over it, ffs.
Posted from
United States -
“3. …but I’ve had a bellyful of English sides searching for scapegoats and excuses every time they lose. “Oh, the ref robbed us again”, “Oh, the Italians are diving again”. You lost because Roma was and is and will always be the BETTER TEAM.”
So were you watching the minutes when our players weren’t inexplicably sent off? Because we were quite dominant.
Fulham fans accept defeat more often than you’d probably ever know — we call it “Fulhamish”. This isn’t some Fergie or Liverpool-esque childish temper tantrum but opining over a disgrace.
Posted from
United States -
“We don’t stab fans if you were nice to us”
Nice sentiment there–we reserve the right to stab fans if you get too boisterous. Because us Arsenal fans are so well-known for being hooligans. Stay classy, Roma–enjoy 14th place!
London rivals or no, good luck to Fulham getting through to the next stage–it’s refreshing to see an English club actually take the Europa League seriously (as opposed to Martin O’Neill and Harry Redknapp sending out the reserve squad), and you deserve some success in the competition.
Posted from
United States -
Dane:
Right let’s try this again.
1) De Rossi. I didn’t call him ‘a known diver’. He does dive – and the fact that you have to resort to such a playground retort as ‘you obviously have no clue what you’re talking about’ is disappointing. He clearly exagerrated what was a clumsy tackle from Nevland. On the McBride elbow, he clearly smirks to one of his team-mates before being overcome by being sent off. Yes, he apologised, but why should I give him credit for that? He elbowed a player with a history of serious facial injuries in the face. He should apologise. That was an affront to the values of the game – particularly the way someone so honest as McBride plays it.
2) I did read the whole blog. Your reasoning is, for my money, pretty flimsy. ‘Taking out DDR from behind’. No comment on the fact that he barely brushed de Rossi’s ankles and the fact that the Italian rolled over and over afterwards. Disappointing. How many red cards would there be in a game if every tackle like that was punished with a red card? If the comment about Taddei is ironical, you will appreciate that even the most ironical comment has a ring of truth. Taddei did sell it very well, but rather than celebrate that act, I condemn – and have done when my own team’s players do it. Michael Owen did it in two successive World Cups – so the English are hardly whiter than white.
3) You know what? I don’t like people searching for scapegoats when we lose. Ultimately, the reason we dropped four points against Roma was because of some poor defending in Rome and allowing Andreolli so much room at the Cottage. It would be nice if Fulham were credited for playing some lovely football in both games and competing until the last, despite playing 70 minutes of 180 with at least one fewer player.
And, to second Timmy’s point, I’ve probably seen my team lose more than most fans on these pages. My first season coincided with the team being relegated down to the lowest professional decision in England. We nearly lost our ground and went of business. I’m well used to losing and take it very well, partly because I expect it. I just enjoy good football and, as a qualified referee, was disappointed with this guy’s display. I’m already over it thank you and will be watching the Wigan game tomorrow cheering on my team.
‘Roma will always be the better team’? Arrogant, much? Did you watch the first half of the first game?
Posted from
United Kingdom -
Seeing as my last comment mysteriously disappeared, I’m slightly reluctant to go through this again, but I’ll try:
1. Looking through the posts again, I see that you weren’t the one using the word “known”. Sorry for that.
Still, where in this video, or any other video, can you point to De Rossi “smirking” to a team-mate? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5e7FqHLbsU&feature=related I’ve looked through a few, and seen none so far. And come on, do you really thought De Rossi had the facial injury history of Brian McBride in mind when he did that? And exaggeration or not: Tackle from behind = red card. That’s the rules, simple as that.2. Much as I’d love to, I cannot take credit for the Roma blog on this site, so you’ll have to talk to chris if you want to question his reasoning. I’ll take your word for you admission that your own players dive, but it changes preciously little. At this point I think I should point out that a couple of years ago De Rossi scored a handball goal he convinced the ref to disallow the goal. In my book, that passes for classy.
3. You either missed the post where I admit to actually liking Fulham or ignoring it on purpose; Fulham did very well to hold us off in both games (although the team you faced would have been something else entirely with Totti, Vucinic and Burdisso playing. And yes, I know Murphy was injured as well).
I’ll try finishing this on a more friendly tone by wishing you good luck for the rest of your season, but as to your final point… I’ll answer that with a question: Do you really think Fulham FC are a better team than AS Roma? Because if your answer to that is ‘yes’, then I have nothing more to say.
And the first half was a piss poor display by a depleted side against a strong defensive team that did well to hold back and break down attacks. Sometimes, things like that happen.Posted from
United States -
1) You are right that the video you have linked to doesn’t show it. He does seem to protest his innocence before being sent off. He did apologise to McBride afterwards and they prayed together, but I’d expect him to apologise for such a violent act. Maybe he didn’t know about McBride’s injury history but it was still a very vicious act.
On the tackle from behind, red card, the latest FIFA directive actually leaves it to the referee’s discretion as to the seriousness of the tackle. On that basis, a large number of challenges from behind are punished by yellow cards because they are mistimed rather than malicious. That’s the point of contention for me.
2) Why does it ‘change precisely little’? All I was doing was disputing the two red cards and the comical rolling around from the Roma players that greeted each challenge. Simulation and cheating is now a distasteful part of the game – it doesn’t make it right.
3) Vucinic came on as a substitute at the Cottage and made a real difference. He’s a quality striker – and how Fulham’s scouts passed up the opportunity to sign him a few years ago I’ll never know. Burdisso played the whole game at Fulham too IIRC.
I’ve had the pleasure of meeting and talking to Montella. A charming man. I appreciate your good wishes for the remainder of the season and I will of course wish Roma the very best for the remainder of their campaign.
On the question of whether Roma are a better team than Fulham, I would suggest that they should be with the quality of players Ranieri has at his disposal. The fact remains that these games were both very close (actually a hell of a lot closer than I expected). I wouldn’t have been disappointed had we lost beforehand, but the manner of our defeats was difficult to take.
Fulham are a strong defensive yes, schooled in Hodgson’s Italian-like footballing philosophy, but I’d content that we actually created quite a few scoring opportunities in the first half in Rome. Should you wish to read more of my views, you’d be welcome to visit my own website.
Posted from
United States -
1. No-one are denying it was a terribly vicious thing to do, De Rossi’s main flaw is, and I’m afraid will always be, his hot-headedness, but until I actually see the smirking… as someone who rarely watches the PL, that was two clear red cards for me, but if the bar is lower on such things in the UK then I understand your reaction. I was rather miffed about the handball in the 1st. half, so I guess it’s just natural you take the opposite view.
2. The rolling-around and timewasting can be partially explained by the HUGE amounts of points we’ve thrown away in the last minutes of a game in recent years. Hell, had we been as cynical two years ago as now we’d have won the 2008 Serie A title by quite a margin. It may not be the most sporting way of winning, but can any top team in the world actually claim to never have grafted out a ugly win in the same way?
3. I had actually forgotten about Vucinic’s sub in London, and, believe this if you will, I was thinking of Juan when mentioning Burdisso. Both were out when we met at the Olimpico though.
I would actually say that Roma have always been a bigger and better club than Fulham, just as Juventus have always been bigger and better than Roma. And when I tell you that I despise Juve with every fibre that I’ve got, you’ll understand that I don’t mean this as an insult – it’s simple fact.
I fully understand why you’re gutted about the results, it’s never easy to take it when you lose out to late goals and have some red cards thrown in, and I can assure you that we Romanistas have had those experiences as well (look up Inter 1-1 Roma on yotube), but in this case it was a matter of a big club edging out a small club (again, no slight intended) the way that big clubs have a tendency to do.Lastly, I’d say the greatest credit to how dangerous you actually were is the way we desperately hung on to our lead in the dying minutes, and the sheer relief shown by the players afterwards.
Posted from
United States -
1. There were several challenges this weekend that were far worse than Nevland’s and some weren’t even free kicks let alone yellow cards. That’s the problem. Throw in Blom’s joke of a performance in the Ajax game and you get an indication of just how poor a referee he is.
2. No, of course, it’s commonplace in football nowadays and Roma obviously needed a win. It’s just a bit distasteful that’s all.
3. I saw the Inter-Roma game and Roma were robbed no question. I guess they’ll be plenty of talk about Vieira on De Rossi too. Certainly Roma have always been a bigger club than us that’s true, but I was surprised at just how close it actually was.
All the best for the rest of the season.
Posted from
United Kingdom -
I’ll “close” this by once again wishing you all the best (I wouldn’t mind if you beat Basel you know), final point being made on the issue of diving: take a look at how Liverpool got their penalty against Birmingham today.
Posted from
United States -
“I would be embarassed if I supported an Italian team”
Yet it seems to me the italian team came out on top…
“it’s refreshing to see an English club actually take the Europa League seriously”
So that’s why Fulham tied mighty CSKA Sofia. They have the quality to win that tie easily, the fact is they didnt take it seriously because they put out a reserve line up.
I have no intention to insult Fulham, as a neutral I actually quite enjoy watching them, but the complaining here is childish. Every team has to go through controversy, its part of the game.Posted from
United States
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